This made my day and helped pull me out of a bit of a rut I was in.
He also had this video on his profile and said photographers that shoot for free should watch. (watch to get the point of the post)
Hell fuck yeah. Pay the writer/photographer/designer/make-up/hair/artist.
The mix of his encouragement and this video has enhanced my mindset that people should respect my craft more. I feel like I just got the balls to take this much more seriously. After this $30 photoshoot crap, prices will reflect my level of work and should skyrocket in comparison to what they are now. Too many people that KNOW I'm shooting at these ultra cheap prices still tryin to get freebies. wtf? If your facebook friend worked in the mall do you expect them to give you free clothes?
I'm not God's gift to photography and fashion, but I know my work is worth more than $30. ...now at least. lol
But yeah, hope you enjoyed.
Now some work by the photographer that inspired this rant. An example of what I look to for inspiration
http://www.modelmayhem.com/138008
Posts
An increase in prices does not change the fact that I will be seeing you when I reach my weight loss goal. I love all of your work. You shoot beautiful pictures. Good luck on turning a real profit with your amazing gift.
ReplyDelete"Cross my palm with silver" :D
ReplyDelete"...They don't even give you a copy of the DVD" Lol.
This is so true. I think it is wrong when people expect you to render creative work/services without compensating you somehow. I mean it's one thing when you want to provide free services to a friend/organization/business you'd like to support, but when someone expects you to freely give away your hard work and time-- that's nerve.
Thats why creatives should have just as much nerve and confidence in the services they provide. I remember explaining this to a contest holder. He was expecting higher quality work for an emaciated cash prize. The unfortunate part is that he was 'genuinely' surprised by the low entry response.
I suggested he raise the prize amount and strongly encouraged him to realize that the level of quality he'd receive would reflect the perceived value he placed on the designers services.
Some people truly are confused about the value of a Creative's services and I can't blame them sometimes. It doesn't help when desperate designers/artist/musicians... (talented and untalented) undermine the value of their craft/profession in an effort to pursue their own goals. That's a wee bit selfish, because in the end it hurts you as well.
Larry, you truly are talented, and your work just gets better! Keep it up and make them bags uh that money :)
-D. Stevens
I'm more interested in turning out art than I am profit, but why do a job if I get neither?
ReplyDeleteThis rant really just applies to these "work" offerings I get of things that will mean nothing and add nothing to my body of work or experience.
Great insight Darrell. I guess I should have clarified that pay isn't just monetary. Compensation can include being published in reputable publications, adding to my portfolio, or somekind of perk or upper hand to be used later for something.
And true about the "desperate designers/artsits/musicians"...but it's not even like they're desperate. Most of the times, from what i've seen, their work isn't worth paying for anyways. But people that don't know what they're talking about commission these poeple for free thinking they're getting a deal (and instead they just got free poo).
But thank you. You know I think you're very talentedas well. We canmake the bags uh that money together! lol
i wanna make my own rant...AND name names just like this. lol
ReplyDeletePeople are so insensitive and ridiculous when it comes to considering someone's gifted craft. smh. we have spoke of this hoopla already so i shall digress here.
That was hilarious and so true. I read a post on Gawker's blog about different news and online outlets expecting J-school grads to work for free, particularly The Huffington Post. The HP has about 4 or 5 regular, paid staff, and the bulk of its content comes from freelancers--emphasis on free. The assumption is J-school grads should be willing to work for free just because the industry is on a decline. I call BS on that. If you work hard, you should get some compensation.
ReplyDeleteLmao @ Harlan's rant. The man won't take a piss without getting pay for it. I do understand where he's coming from tho. The quality of his work is not worth the compromise of being free to the usage of such people. Those type of industries (including "friends") are always looking out for their benefit. In return, you won't get anything more than a pat in the back.
ReplyDeleteAs far as doing a photography job for no monetary gain. I think there might be some benefit to it for us. I for example haven't charged anyone yet for a photo shoot because I'm using them as my guinea pig. I made it clear to all of them that I'm either doing a conceptual experiment using them, trying to gain more knowledge about my gears and the technicality behind the craft, or I'm just adding something to my body of work.
Doing all that, I'm putting myself at a position where my work will speak for itself and it will never ever utter the word "Free". There will be a time where people are going to have to pay an efty price for my service. The only time I might consider doing it free (TFCD) is if the model has crazy ideas like fighting an alligator, sleep on the highway in the middle of traffic,etc. Right now, i'm just having fun.
Ed
www.edsonandre.com
I didn't know that bout the huffington post.
ReplyDeleteI saw we soon-to-be college grads form a college grad union.
Power in numbers!
We bully FREElancers into working for money as to not cheapen our crafts!
Who's with me! [brave-heart voice]
I see where you're coming from Edson. There's definitely a difference in you commissioning a model for free to shoot her for YOUR portfolio and someone trying to commission you to shoot something THEY need for free.
ReplyDeleteI definitely believing in testing and TF*, but even with TF - the T stands for trade. It's not free. There's an exchange of talent that will benefit both sides. Many people have no intent to trade, they just want pretty pictures for themselves for whatever reasons.
There may be no monetary exchange, but there is definitely a gain in testing with models
"I'm more interested in turning out art than I am profit, but why do a job if I get neither?"
ReplyDeleteGreat point. I'm on that very page! I get a kick out of trying to make the ideas in my head tangible. It's hard work sometimes (some times it feels improbable..:P)
BUT good art and creativity should always be appreciated... and you're right that it doesn't have to be monetary.
I just thought of this quote I heard on a hp commercial featuring Gwen Stefani. It's one of my favorites now:
"Sometimes it's so hard to find what it is I'm trying to say. People might think you can turn creativity on and off, but it's not like that. It just kinda comes out... a mash up of all these things you collect in your mind. You never know when it's going to happen, but when it does it's like magic. It's just that simple and it's just that hard."
-Gwen Stefani
I think if more people understood the process/time/dedication behind the work... they'd appreciate it more...
And thanks!! :D
-D. Stevens
Pay the model!!!
ReplyDeleteNot talking about myself...LOL... but I see many photographers, designers, etc whose only goal is to do the same thing to models... to find the best, most experienced model at the free-est price... because they're giving them a "exposure"...
Like the guy inthe vid said... People RARELY search down models after seeign them in a pic/exhibition (becasue they're a dime a dozen these days), so the only reward a model may ever get is you greasing her palms with some silver... at least consider giving her 5-10% of whatever profits you expect to make.
Geesh!
I'm excited for you LArry!!!!!!!!! I knew you would come around to realizing the gold in your work.. but hey, we all start somewhere.. it keeps us humble ;-)
*sorry for all the typos... snuck a comment in at work... ;)
ReplyDeleteI'm back again. You have a point Robyn. Some models do get pay for their time during certain shoot but keep in mind that the models have other motives when they work with a photographer. Most of them are building their portfolio for fashion modeling and acting where they can make the big bucks. The photographer himself all he does for a living is take pictures. That's why most of the time it end up with the model paying the photographer instead of the other way around. Or the Agency that commission the service pays both the model and the photographer
ReplyDeleteBut like Larry says, this situation mainly applies to people using the friend card to get freebie without realizing that what you do takes a lot of work. I have noticed that with web designing where people coming up to me asking me to build a website for them for free. The years that it took me to learn the things, the risk of getting caught by the FBI while bootlegging some web design software for "educational purpose" didn't come free. More importantly the hours that I spend doing the work for them are certainly not cheap let alone free.
As for you Robyn, you know the deal already. I need you to make it big. And I think you might need me too lol. So that's where trading talents come in. Ok I need to go back to my engineering books before I quit school and pursue this photography thing full time.
Lol, I agree Robyn.
ReplyDeleteModels should be paid if they are professional models or if their image will be used to make money.
The thing is, A lot of "models" are actually girls/guys that just get their pictures taken as a hobby.
I think people should be compensated based on the quality of their work, and for most people that call themselves "models" $0 is right around that.
Good and services. If your service can be found all around for free, why will people pay for it? Would you pay your homeboy to snap photos of you with his celly? Apply that to "models."
When you look at all the Agency signed models out there and how much they've put into their craft (maintaining skin, body, hair, practice posing/facial expressions, and RARE genetics + height) it's easy to see why so many models don't get paid.
But i totally see what you're saying, it works both ways. But at the level that we normal people work in, the photographer is generally the underpaid. IMO. I think it's because there are more people trying to model than trying to photograph. The rarer skillset is more valuable.
BUT if the model is smart she should only be shooting for TRADE with photographers that will add to her portfolio anyways. If she's trying to be a fashion model, she doesn't need to be shooting with a glamour or casual photographer unless she gets something (money) and charge everyone else for anything he/she won't use.
And usually models get paid top dollar for campaigns
The top models get paid... the same way top writers and top photographers get paid.
ReplyDeleteBut even agency models are often pursued for a free gig, because like Harlan Ellison, if your name is not known internationally, they think they're doing you a favor... but the same thing applies here whether you're writer, model, photographer, makeup artist, etc.... You get what you demand... so know your worth! (preaching to myself on web design.. *whew*)
And Edson.... I'm not tryna make it in this fashion business... it's more catty and hostile than I can bear... So I will be your free puppet any day :-)